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	<title>Comments on: Fake plastic trees</title>
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	<link>http://www.dark-mountain.net/wordpress/2009/12/10/fake-plastic-trees/</link>
	<description>A new literary movement for a time of global disruption</description>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.dark-mountain.net/wordpress/2009/12/10/fake-plastic-trees/comment-page-1/#comment-1695</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dark-mountain.net/?p=497#comment-1695</guid>
		<description>Jamie - I don&#039;t think you&#039;ll find many &#039;liberals&#039; here at DMP. As for the cynicism - not a word I would use, but you should feel free to distinguish as you see fit.

We are not a project that exists to promote &#039;engineering solutions&#039; to anything. There are plenty of people doing that. Neither are we a project that feels a &#039;responsibility&#039; to suggest &#039;answers&#039; that you might consider useful or comfortable. It&#039;s not what we are here for. But if you do want &#039;alternatives&#039; and the like, you should feel free to come to the festival in May, where you will find visions aplenty. And do feel free to bring your own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jamie &#8211; I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;ll find many &#8216;liberals&#8217; here at DMP. As for the cynicism &#8211; not a word I would use, but you should feel free to distinguish as you see fit.</p>
<p>We are not a project that exists to promote &#8216;engineering solutions&#8217; to anything. There are plenty of people doing that. Neither are we a project that feels a &#8216;responsibility&#8217; to suggest &#8216;answers&#8217; that you might consider useful or comfortable. It&#8217;s not what we are here for. But if you do want &#8216;alternatives&#8217; and the like, you should feel free to come to the festival in May, where you will find visions aplenty. And do feel free to bring your own.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://www.dark-mountain.net/wordpress/2009/12/10/fake-plastic-trees/comment-page-1/#comment-1694</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dark-mountain.net/?p=497#comment-1694</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m writing here to apologise for my rather disparaging comment on your other post. Loving your sarcastic and cynical caption for the Brad Pitt image.

Please can we be clear on which bits are the cynicism and which bits are suggesting alternatives to the status quo that it is so easy to be cynical about.

Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m writing here to apologise for my rather disparaging comment on your other post. Loving your sarcastic and cynical caption for the Brad Pitt image.</p>
<p>Please can we be clear on which bits are the cynicism and which bits are suggesting alternatives to the status quo that it is so easy to be cynical about.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas</title>
		<link>http://www.dark-mountain.net/wordpress/2009/12/10/fake-plastic-trees/comment-page-1/#comment-1679</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dark-mountain.net/?p=497#comment-1679</guid>
		<description>I note that the picture of the giant potato graters places them in a desert conveniently apart from where most people live. I expect like much &#039;futuristic&#039; technology it probably will not come to pass - our imaginations exceed our realism - which is both exalting and a major contributor to the mess we are in!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I note that the picture of the giant potato graters places them in a desert conveniently apart from where most people live. I expect like much &#8216;futuristic&#8217; technology it probably will not come to pass &#8211; our imaginations exceed our realism &#8211; which is both exalting and a major contributor to the mess we are in!</p>
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		<title>By: News Room :: Everyone but everyone is at Copenhagen…</title>
		<link>http://www.dark-mountain.net/wordpress/2009/12/10/fake-plastic-trees/comment-page-1/#comment-1676</link>
		<dc:creator>News Room :: Everyone but everyone is at Copenhagen…</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dark-mountain.net/?p=497#comment-1676</guid>
		<description>[...] I see Paul Kingsnorth has just blogged this photo at the Dark Mountain Project with the caption: “Which is obviously a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I see Paul Kingsnorth has just blogged this photo at the Dark Mountain Project with the caption: “Which is obviously a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Everyone but everyone is at Copenhagen… : The Center for Sustainable Practice in the Arts</title>
		<link>http://www.dark-mountain.net/wordpress/2009/12/10/fake-plastic-trees/comment-page-1/#comment-1675</link>
		<dc:creator>Everyone but everyone is at Copenhagen… : The Center for Sustainable Practice in the Arts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 07:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dark-mountain.net/?p=497#comment-1675</guid>
		<description>[...] I see Paul Kingsnorth has just blogged this photo at the Dark Mountain Project with the caption: “Which is obviously a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I see Paul Kingsnorth has just blogged this photo at the Dark Mountain Project with the caption: “Which is obviously a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://www.dark-mountain.net/wordpress/2009/12/10/fake-plastic-trees/comment-page-1/#comment-1671</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dark-mountain.net/?p=497#comment-1671</guid>
		<description>Yes Mark, that is indeed the logical conclusion. Of course, if the 2% positively &#039;aware&#039; were to swap with the 2% who hold the reins of global corporate/finacial/media control - then it would be another story..

However, the &#039;collapse scenario&#039; is the most likely outcome of our current dilemma. However, one never knows what life has in store - and remember, David (as it is written) nailed Goliath with just a sling and a stone! It therefore makes much sense for us all to engage ourselves in the David v Goliath confrontation of our times. Try to stop the vagabonds wiping us out BUT simultaneously engage in positive and life engendering activities that build the arks for the time to come. 

Its through engaging in both these actions that we become whole and uncompromised. This sends positive microvita into the collective energy fields upon which we all draw. And that which happens at unseen levels has repercussions on that which appears fixed beyond redemption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Mark, that is indeed the logical conclusion. Of course, if the 2% positively &#8216;aware&#8217; were to swap with the 2% who hold the reins of global corporate/finacial/media control &#8211; then it would be another story..</p>
<p>However, the &#8216;collapse scenario&#8217; is the most likely outcome of our current dilemma. However, one never knows what life has in store &#8211; and remember, David (as it is written) nailed Goliath with just a sling and a stone! It therefore makes much sense for us all to engage ourselves in the David v Goliath confrontation of our times. Try to stop the vagabonds wiping us out BUT simultaneously engage in positive and life engendering activities that build the arks for the time to come. </p>
<p>Its through engaging in both these actions that we become whole and uncompromised. This sends positive microvita into the collective energy fields upon which we all draw. And that which happens at unseen levels has repercussions on that which appears fixed beyond redemption.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Harrison</title>
		<link>http://www.dark-mountain.net/wordpress/2009/12/10/fake-plastic-trees/comment-page-1/#comment-1667</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Harrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dark-mountain.net/?p=497#comment-1667</guid>
		<description>Julian, I&#039;m sorry to say I believe that the 2% who care cannot influence the 98% because if they could, it would have happened by now.  History shows that civilisations never vote themselves out of existence; they collapse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julian, I&#8217;m sorry to say I believe that the 2% who care cannot influence the 98% because if they could, it would have happened by now.  History shows that civilisations never vote themselves out of existence; they collapse.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://www.dark-mountain.net/wordpress/2009/12/10/fake-plastic-trees/comment-page-1/#comment-1660</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dark-mountain.net/?p=497#comment-1660</guid>
		<description>Yes Paul - it certainly is the main point. But is there a silent majority or minority - who agree with this?  

It seems to me that it is a minority, in the order of perhaps 2% of the UK public. The other 98% are too dumbed down to either think or care. However many of those love to play around with technical fixes...  

So, the next real question is: how can the 2% that do care influence the 98% that don&#039;t?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Paul &#8211; it certainly is the main point. But is there a silent majority or minority &#8211; who agree with this?  </p>
<p>It seems to me that it is a minority, in the order of perhaps 2% of the UK public. The other 98% are too dumbed down to either think or care. However many of those love to play around with technical fixes&#8230;  </p>
<p>So, the next real question is: how can the 2% that do care influence the 98% that don&#8217;t?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.dark-mountain.net/wordpress/2009/12/10/fake-plastic-trees/comment-page-1/#comment-1659</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dark-mountain.net/?p=497#comment-1659</guid>
		<description>The &#039;trees&#039; apparently have to be stand-alone: they would take up a vast, vast land area - if there was any left not already taken up palm oil trees, wind &#039;farms&#039; and solar arrays. 

When they&#039;ve taken the carbon out of the atmosphere, of course, we then need to find somewhere to store it. Pumping it under the ocean floor seems to be a popular idea. I can&#039;t see why this would be less hazardous than the storage of nuclear waste. 

But the main point here, surely, is that these things, and other such techno-fixes, are presented and would be used not as a first step towards a new world but as an excuse to carry on with the old one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8216;trees&#8217; apparently have to be stand-alone: they would take up a vast, vast land area &#8211; if there was any left not already taken up palm oil trees, wind &#8216;farms&#8217; and solar arrays. </p>
<p>When they&#8217;ve taken the carbon out of the atmosphere, of course, we then need to find somewhere to store it. Pumping it under the ocean floor seems to be a popular idea. I can&#8217;t see why this would be less hazardous than the storage of nuclear waste. </p>
<p>But the main point here, surely, is that these things, and other such techno-fixes, are presented and would be used not as a first step towards a new world but as an excuse to carry on with the old one.</p>
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		<title>By: Graeme</title>
		<link>http://www.dark-mountain.net/wordpress/2009/12/10/fake-plastic-trees/comment-page-1/#comment-1657</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 22:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dark-mountain.net/?p=497#comment-1657</guid>
		<description>There may or may not be money in it.  Unlike windmills or solar panels, they don&#039;t produce energy, they take energy to run.  So someone would have to actually subsidize them in order for them to be built and operated.  

Anyway, I acknowledge the moral hazard risk that they would let people continue in their ecologically harmful ways.  But global warming will be ecologically harmful as well, or at least to the ecology as used by us (I think nature will eventually survive alright, on a long enough timescale).  

Given that current levels of warming don&#039;t seem to be pressuring people to do much to change their lifestyles, I&#039;d be fine with using fake trees if they made things easier for us, even if we&#039;d still be left with all sorts of bad things.  I don&#039;t think there are only two options, A:  Useless and B: panacea.  

These trees MIGHT fall under option C:  useful, but leaves many things unfixed.  I don&#039;t know.  But I&#039;d like to know more about them before I can say I&#039;d be for or against.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There may or may not be money in it.  Unlike windmills or solar panels, they don&#8217;t produce energy, they take energy to run.  So someone would have to actually subsidize them in order for them to be built and operated.  </p>
<p>Anyway, I acknowledge the moral hazard risk that they would let people continue in their ecologically harmful ways.  But global warming will be ecologically harmful as well, or at least to the ecology as used by us (I think nature will eventually survive alright, on a long enough timescale).  </p>
<p>Given that current levels of warming don&#8217;t seem to be pressuring people to do much to change their lifestyles, I&#8217;d be fine with using fake trees if they made things easier for us, even if we&#8217;d still be left with all sorts of bad things.  I don&#8217;t think there are only two options, A:  Useless and B: panacea.  </p>
<p>These trees MIGHT fall under option C:  useful, but leaves many things unfixed.  I don&#8217;t know.  But I&#8217;d like to know more about them before I can say I&#8217;d be for or against.</p>
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