Comments on: I’ve seen the future, brother …

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 08:54:17 +0000

Dougal and Jon – thanks, and let me be clear: I’m not ‘attributing’ the Cumbrian floods to climate change. That wasn’t my point. My point was that extreme weather and environmental events, and the increasing inability of our systems to deal with them, are going to become a lot more common, and that this kind of thing (whatever its ’cause’) is a useful reminder of that which we ought to learn from. Though of course, I doubt we will. After all, it seems that the economy is now growing again, so all our troubles are over …

By: Dougal

Dougal — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:53:07 +0000

As a Cumbrian and sort of Dark Mountaineer, and as one who turned up to help out my folks the day after last November’s floods, I would be very cautious about attributing the terrible flooding solely to climate change. The actions of a water company [note I'm being very careful not to name names here...]in the weeks before the flooding are being examined, though as usual this is ignored in mainstream and liberal press [Private Eye is the best way of following this story - another instance of the allegedly cynical in practice showing hope and goodwill in the midst of increasingly venal absurdity]. That said, if there is anything in this story, it is all of a piece with the ongoing unravelling of our machine ‘civilisation’. I do hope you’ve managed to repair the damage to your place.

By: Gavin

Gavin — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:47:26 +0000

More from that Leonard Cohen song. The response of the deniers, perhaps? -

When they said ‘Repent, repent’, I wondered what they meant.

See the white man dancing…

By: Jon Barrett

Jon Barrett — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:43:43 +0000

Like Minnie, I would be sad if the inspiration that I have personally gained from the Dark Mountain Manifesto resulted only in a talking shop. But I am sure that is up to us and how we spread its message. (Though I confess I got separated from fellow dark mountaineers for a while in the white-out of ‘Dark Mountain at Diwo’ – never mind, I’ve found you again now). I am concerned though that like-minds communicate mainly to like-minds in this debate, environmentalists to environmentalists, academics to academics, intellectuals to intellectuals, policy makers to policy makers. And for the wider public lagging far behind, the sceptical voices now have the most appeal.

I agree with you, Paul, that Cumbrian floods are a precursor of worse to come, but for many years ago I lived in the Lakes and in South West Scotland and remember much extreme weather. The same will be true of other living memories all over the UK. Sadly drawing conclusions in public about as yet unproven climate change events may only feed the agendas of sceptics and prolong their opportunities for scornful derision.

I have written on this – and on your Guardian article – here. (I sent to the paper but without success!):

http://jontybarrett.wordpress.com/2009/11/27/russian-roulette/

Please don’t misunderstand me – I am a fully committed Dark Mountaineer. It’s just that my ‘mission’ in communicating crises is to extend the skills and knowledge of mountaineering to those who have never even thought to climb a mountain before, let alone to start the ascent in such bad weather. It’s becoming more difficult to persuade them to set out as the sceptics advise that the storm clouds will pass and meanwhile it would be sensible if we all stay safe and cosy at home.

By: Julian

Julian — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:45:25 +0000

‘Art changing the world’ would be nice of course; but ‘artists’ changing the world is the only way the world can change (for the better). I use the word ‘artists’ in its broadest meaning.

Those who can actually envision a future of beauty and creativity have to get on and build their visions – preferably together – or at least by taking leadership positions in socio economic, cultural and environmental arenas and promoting the holistic solutions wihout which no progress can be made. That’s what its all about. Am I wrong? Why does it sometimes seem that an almost endless state of (sometimes cleverly disguised) prevarication hovers over this process?

By: Minnie

Minnie — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:00:10 +0000

I do wish you well, Paul and Dougald. This sounds like a brave and thoughtful enterprise, and our fragmented society needs to be viewed by clear-sighted, committed people like yourselves. I love what Tom Hodgkinson is doing, and the news of that excellent writer Tobias Hill’s prospective woodland community is inspiring. ‘New stories’ – new narratives: yes! My only concern would be that this might turn into yet another talking shop or shunt itself into an increasingly narrow margin, where poets do little but talk to each other. Please don’t let that happen!

By: Donald Duck

Donald Duck — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 09:57:49 +0000

Sorry to be rude about anyone’s poetry. I know my poetry would be so bad that I don’t even attempt it. (I’m tempted to have a go at learning the accordion, but I think that’s also very difficult to do well – though perhaps not so much as poetry). Good luck with the vegetables though.

By: Paul Kingsnorth

Paul Kingsnorth — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 09:30:27 +0000

Donald – actually I haven’t read the Atwood yet; it sits on my desk as I write. We have discussed it before on this blog though. As for art changing the world – well, not on its own, perhaps, but I think that re-evaluating the stories that lie beneath our civilisation is vital. At present we treat our myths as facts, and it seems to be to be one of the roots of where we have come to. Personally, I think that both poetry and gardening have their uses. I am proud of the fact that I can both write a poem and grow a plot full of vegetables. Badly in both cases, but life is a learning process.

By: Donald Duck

Donald Duck — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:35:54 +0000

I agree with much of what you say.

I don’t think art will change the world though. Indeed the apotheothesis of story-telling seems to be a professional risk for storytellers (and to my mind part of the civilisational illness which you describe.)

Reading what you say about the lack of writing on the current state of the world, I would almost think you had never read Margaret Atwood’s Oryx and Crake: far more pointed, acerbic, funnier and actually thought-provoking than some of the, to my taste, more turgid eco-poetry quoted in your manifesto.

I’d have thought market-gardening was a more useful response to the current state of things than poetry, but there you go…

By: Lee Rowland

Lee Rowland — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:10:00 +0000

By the way Gregory, I didn’t mean the comments in your Prospect piece were ridiculous, I liked and enjoyed your article very much. I mean that the comments left by readers were (some of them at least) ridiculous. Much like mine it seems!
Ta.